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XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby imnuts » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:38 am

gries818 wrote:Of course I'm not blaming Microsoft for what they can't include, but that doesn't change the fact that I can't do anything with 7 out of the box. Perhaps MS ramp up spending on its government lobbying... :lol:


Or maybe it's just that MS Users don't need someone telling them what programs to use and what they are/aren't allowed to do with their hardware they purchase and are more than just mindless followers... :whistle
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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby gries818 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:53 am

imnuts wrote:
gries818 wrote:Of course I'm not blaming Microsoft for what they can't include, but that doesn't change the fact that I can't do anything with 7 out of the box. Perhaps MS ramp up spending on its government lobbying... :lol:


Or maybe it's just that MS Users don't need someone telling them what programs to use and what they are/aren't allowed to do with their hardware they purchase and are more than just mindless followers... :whistle


Find me a free programs better than iTunes, iPhoto, and iMovie and I'd agree with you. And if there were such programs out there, users are of course free to use them if they preferred them to the Apple equivalents..

And it really isn't the hardware that has the limitation... I can install any OS that can run on the hardware. I just can't install OS X on any set of hardware. It may be a niche market right now, but people are learning to like an OS that doesn't have the risk of stretching itself thin trying to support too many unique combination of hardware.
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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby JabbaPapa » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:04 am

gries818 wrote:[...] I can see enough to know I don't like this more than OS X. The new toolbar just doesn't have the same cool 'element' of the Dock. Internet Explorer 8 isn't on par with Safari or Firefox (though users can obviously install either Safari or Firefox) though websites do tend render better than they do in 8 on XP or 7 on Vista..

The "Libraries" feature is a great improvement. Windows Media Player has been improved quite a bit, though I won't say it's even with iTunes just yet.

Taken in to account, there is a lot of great stuff in 7. I don't know if it is worth to upgrade XP, but I would switch from Vista. I still don't regret switching to a Mac. OS X feels a lot more full-featured with iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iTunes, etc all built right in. I feel like I have to download a lot before I can do a lot with my computer on 7, and I don't feel that way about my OS X installation.


Wow, well that post kind of clinches it for me, Mac versus Windows really IS a matter of personal taste :whistle :notworthy

I personally can't get my head round the Mac OS Dock, can't stand Safari (although I use Opera rather than IE), and I 'd never use either iTunes or GarageBand. I don't know about iMovie, but one of the great things about WMP in W7 is that I'm no longer forced to install QuickTime on my rig for the sole purpose of playing movie trailers in that format...

Image viewing/editing etc is of course one of the strengths of the Apple, so I guess I'm unsurprised that you list it as one of the best features in Mac OS. Out of the box, W7 is not that good in this area.

It's nice though, and somewhat encouraging, to see this globally appreciative opinion from a Mac guy -- and I really wish there were some OEM PC manufacturer that at least attempted to make PCs with the same high quality of hardware configuration as Apple make their Macs ...
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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby gries818 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:54 pm

JabbaPapa wrote:
gries818 wrote:[...] I can see enough to know I don't like this more than OS X. The new toolbar just doesn't have the same cool 'element' of the Dock. Internet Explorer 8 isn't on par with Safari or Firefox (though users can obviously install either Safari or Firefox) though websites do tend render better than they do in 8 on XP or 7 on Vista..

The "Libraries" feature is a great improvement. Windows Media Player has been improved quite a bit, though I won't say it's even with iTunes just yet.

Taken in to account, there is a lot of great stuff in 7. I don't know if it is worth to upgrade XP, but I would switch from Vista. I still don't regret switching to a Mac. OS X feels a lot more full-featured with iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iTunes, etc all built right in. I feel like I have to download a lot before I can do a lot with my computer on 7, and I don't feel that way about my OS X installation.


Wow, well that post kind of clinches it for me, Mac versus Windows really IS a matter of personal taste :whistle :notworthy

I personally can't get my head round the Mac OS Dock, can't stand Safari (although I use Opera rather than IE), and I 'd never use either iTunes or GarageBand. I don't know about iMovie, but one of the great things about WMP in W7 is that I'm no longer forced to install QuickTime on my rig for the sole purpose of playing movie trailers in that format...

Image viewing/editing etc is of course one of the strengths of the Apple, so I guess I'm unsurprised that you list it as one of the best features in Mac OS. Out of the box, W7 is not that good in this area.

It's nice though, and somewhat encouraging, to see this globally appreciative opinion from a Mac guy -- and I really wish there were some OEM PC manufacturer that at least attempted to make PCs with the same high quality of hardware configuration as Apple make their Macs ...


Well I don't hate Windows nor do I hate Microsoft, but there is a major reason why I switched. If you were to spend time looking through these forums, you would see that earlier on in my membership, I hated Macs. The game changer for me was OS X. Apple finally realized OS 8 and 9 were as bad, if not worse than Windows ME and totally overhauled their OS for a new era of computing.

It wasn't really Vista that made me switch. I haven't used Vista as a main OS since before it was released, but I never had the problems with it that others did. I found it as fast XP on the same hardware, and never had incompatibility problems with other hardware. Of course maybe I just didn't do the right things to make it crash, but it worked for what I wanted to do.

The difference is definitely a personal taste, but I switched after seeing how relatives and friends could use their computers without the hassle I had with Windows. Unless you build the machine yourself (in that case it will eventually catch up) from the moment you plug the computer in it is like waging a war with your computer. Usually to get all the crapware your manufacturer installed to make things "easier" you have to reinstall. And then you have to go through a process of after the install of hours of updating, driver searching, installing the programs you want (like Firefox or whatever), and rebooting. And then when that is all done, you go through a routine of virus and adware scans, defragmentation, and the occasional cleaning of hundreds of unwanted and unneed files and programs that just seem to accumulate when you are trying to do the simplest of tasks. Like converting a .wma to .mp3. Or trying to export a .doc (or .docx) to .pdf form.

I don't have this fight on my Mac. And there are constantly little features within the OS that pop up just when you find the need for them (like the export as .pdf... so handy). It is still a computer, and there is still some level of maintenance, but it just isn't the same.

7 is an improvement. And in some areas I can see they've imitated Apple and in others even innovated beyond what Leopard does. I wouldn't expect anything else. But they need some major overhauling to the OS and even a retooling of the way manufacturers use Windows. And they are making some positive steps in the right direction. But they just aren't ready to make the major decisions yet.
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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby Ztrl » Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:56 pm

gries818 wrote:
Ztrl wrote:My Eee PC came with Windows XP Home on it. After I ran XP for about a month with it continually crashing at the simplest of tasks installed 7 and I will never go back again. No crashing and it runs fast and smooth with very limited hardware.


Hmm, I almost wonder if your XP installation came with Eee software installed that made it crash. That was one of the big reasons why I was fed up with Windows - I don't want to have to reinstall a fresh copy to get stable OS. Keeping it stable shouldn't feel like fighting a war with your PC.


I've got the Eee software installed on 7 and it works just fine.

JabbaPapa wrote:
gries818 wrote:[...]
It's nice though, and somewhat encouraging, to see this globally appreciative opinion from a Mac guy -- and I really wish there were some OEM PC manufacturer that at least attempted to make PCs with the same high quality of hardware configuration as Apple make their Macs ...


They call themselves "Alienware". XD
All these years women have had slogans to confuse us. When a woman says "no" she means no. When a man says "yes" it means he pobably hasn't understood the question.


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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby JabbaPapa » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:28 pm

Ztrl wrote:They call themselves "Alienware". XD


AFAIK Alienware are a) overrated and b) basically cater to a fringe market of gamers with the cash but not the knowhow to build their own high-end system
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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby imnuts » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:34 pm

Alienware are just high-end Dell systems that don't have Dell branding. Lenovo is who I would say makes laptops (not sure about desktops) that are IMO better than the new MacBook(Pro) and were on the level of the old Powerbooks. Also, Apple still has the software, but they are as good at processing audio/video now that they switched to Intel based systems. Personally, they should have stuck with PPC as it was far superior in terms of computing power, especially when it came to video editting/authoring.

What Microsoft needs to do with the next version of Windows is set more specific hardware requirements similar to what they are doing with Windows Mobile/Phone (whatever you want to call it) as there are very specific hardware requirements set for WM7 as to what has to be there. They also need to force OEMs and hardware manufacturers to continue to support their products with drivers rather than just dropping them and moving on with a new product.
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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby JabbaPapa » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:41 pm

imnuts wrote:What Microsoft needs to do with the next version of Windows is set more specific hardware requirements [...] They also need to force OEMs and hardware manufacturers to continue to support their products with drivers rather than just dropping them and moving on with a new product.


That's a good nutshell description of what MS actively tried to do with ... er ... Vista.

I think people are generally VERY happy that the stringent hardware requirements attached to that OS have been trashed.
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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby gries818 » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:44 pm

imnuts wrote:What Microsoft needs to do with the next version of Windows is set more specific hardware requirements similar to what they are doing with Windows Mobile/Phone (whatever you want to call it) as there are very specific hardware requirements set for WM7 as to what has to be there. They also need to force OEMs and hardware manufacturers to continue to support their products with drivers rather than just dropping them and moving on with a new product.


Agreed. But also, some sort of regulation has to be made by Microsoft to prevent crappy programs from OEMs from every touching the hard drive unless the user requests them on their setup. For instance, I've had help a neighbor 4 or 5 times sort out a wireless problem on her Dell XP laptop because it shipped with a replacement program to the native wireless connection manager. The Dell replacement apparently can't hold a key, and flat out refuses to connect even when entered. The native controller works fine. But the Dell controller always reactivates itself on reboot and uninstalling it removes the driver for the wireless card in the laptop! I suppose I could hunt down the driver files manually, but they left for Texas for a few months so I can't. I have friends with Vista who have experienced similar issues.
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Re: XP or Vista - Which is more at risk from Windows 7?

Postby Ztrl » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:08 pm

It's true that OEMs have gone a bit overboard with their software endorsements... Comparing Vista from an OEM build to Vista clean install is like night and day. Clean install Vista doesn't have 60% of the problems that the OEM redundant software does. Google Desktop + Vista = Redundancy.
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