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AM2+ quad core now?

Postby JabbaPapa » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:36 pm

OC up to 2.90 Ghz :cool:

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About the game, it sucks in DX9, but it's much better in DX10 -- the tactical aspect really starts to shine :yesnod: ; and also it gets a LOT better and less repetitive once you get past the first 15-20 levels or so :roleeyes
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Postby JabbaPapa » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:05 am

Basic overclock stabilises at 2.88 Ghz, or +30% or thereabouts

I'm no OC specialist, if I were I could get it much higher ; I'm just using the basic manual OC settings in BIOS.

Still, pretty good for an entry-level single-core CPU ... :cool:
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Postby JabbaPapa » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:13 am

The recent revelations in the "Vista-capable" class action lawsuit, that Intel pushed for and obtained (by whatever means) a lowering of the bar of the minimum specs for a "Vista-capable" system, leave a bad taste in the mouth. AMD has been pushing and working for years to raise the standards, and Intel's successful lobbying has been a severe blow against the Windows PC market.

[align=center]:question [thinks]Hmmmm .... aren't Intel exclusive partners with Apple Inc. to produce their Mactels ?
Isn't there some kind of conflict of interest here ??[/thinks] :question[/align]

What you get with an AM2+ motherboard is the capability to build a truly "Premium-capable" system for Vista

What's "Premium-capable" ? Oh, it's an old set of minimum specs that Intel seems to have succeeded in trashing at the same time that they messed up the "Vista-capable" ones for everyone :-x

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I cannot understate my anger at Intel, and against the suits at MS who let this happen --- even though personally, I feel vindicated by my decision to stick with AMD. In the long run, AMD simply make much more reliable hardware, and without any of this awful skullduggery and customer-shafting.

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Here's my take on how people should REALLY interpret the existing minimum specs for Vista :

Vista-capable = XP-era hardware that can run Vista Basic Edition

current "Vista-sticker" rigs = rigs guaranteed to successfully run Vista Business/Enterprise --- unfortunately, this category includes many, many, MANY computers that have either been sold by OEMs with inappropriate Home Premium software (because Intel's successful push to lower the standard makes it artificially appear that these rigs are premium-capable), as well as many computers that have been built or upgraded by individual enthusiasts based on the MISLEADING minimum specs (SOME of these rigs will be happy with Premium/Ultimate, but most probably will not :no , particularly given the explosion of the laptop market share) -- not to mention that many computers sold with these stickers are not even fully Vista x64 capable, because of drivers unavailabilty and inappropriate hardware included

"Premium-capable" = rigs that Windows enthusiasts/gamers/geeks/multimedia enthusiasts would want --- and it is a crying shame, but this set of minimum specs was never officially released, even as a set of recommendations. IIRC it included a minimum 2GB DDR2 RAM requirement, DX10 capability was obligatory, and especially there were some VERY tight standards for motherboards and chipsets, to ensure a smooth experience with either Vista Premium or Ultimate ... I guess Intel didn't like those tight standards :-x

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The AM2+ motherboards have as far as I can tell been specced according to the standards of motherboards belonging to this third category of computers for Windows. They can be used with anything from the single-core Semprons, via the Athlons, up to the quad core Phenoms. And Vista just works like a DREAM

The Phenoms are actually AM3 CPUs, as previously mentioned in this thread, so that a future upgrade to a future DDR3-compatible AM3 motherboard will be smooth and simple :yesnod:

Now, it's STILL too early to get a Phenom, the ones currently on the market still have the infamous bug --- the bug-free ones won't be out for another month or so.

BUT :

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If you are fed up with the performance/mis-performance of Vista on your supposedly Vista-friendly Intel system, you should in my opinion DEFINITELY consider switching/switching back to AMD when the 9500, 9650, and other forthcoming bug-free Phenoms finally become available

If you already mistrust Intel, and have been holding the fort with an older AMD system, AM2+ w/ Phenom is the upgrade you've been waiting for

And if you're worried about the supposed benchmarking advantage of the Intel CPUs over the Phenoms, as far as I can tell the benchmarks systematically fail to factor for the AM2+ platform's AMAZING overclocking capabilities ; more Vista-specifically, the chipsets on the AM2+ have been specifically designed for Vista, and AMD has IMO proven now that no : it's NOT just all about clock speeds and benchmarks :no

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I am really, really looking forward to mid-2008 and later, when fully Vista-friendly computers with the Vista Premium SP1 pre-installed will be out there, so that we can start crawling back from this HUGE damage that Intel has inflicted on Vista and on its image among the public, including the enthusiast public.

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edit : hey 14k posts :cool:
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Postby JabbaPapa » Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:46 pm

DRAT !!! The hardware bug in my config still seems to be there --- rig's started crashing again.

It just has to be a damaged HDD :(
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Postby freeagent » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:28 pm

its not a damaged hd, its the chipset and hardware your useing. i ran amd for a few years, and it was great when they worked. except for overclocking. the motherboards, specifically the nf4 sli platform was unreliable. ive had several "highend" amd boards, and they all have failed. sure they are great for a couple of months.. just like if you keep pushing yours, it will fail too. since i have moved to intel, bluescreens are a thing of the past. nice smooth stable overclocking now, and power? its impressive. with amd, they give you what, maybe 3-500mhz, if your lucky, you might not have to work too hard for it. you might have to show it whos boss, its luck of the draw. intel gives you at least a free ghz, after that, you have to deal with the heat, but usually you get about 1400mhz if you put in some work. amd may be the better company morally, but hardware wise, they are for the budget orientated. with the exception of ati.. right now intel has the upper hand performance wise, and you cannot deny it. yes there is is more to life then benchmarks. i do miss the on die memory controller tho. i have to kick up the fsb, or the stix pretty good to get my latencys into amd territory. but thats about it.. besides, how many amds do you know of that can pull off 8mins a frame on a 2653 in smp useing vista64 sp1? i dont mean to sound like a jerk in this post. but what you have said about the recent revelations, arent so recent. amd did that when conroes came out.. fear leaves a bitter taste sometimes. i tried hard to get my amds to keep up, but couldnt.
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Postby JabbaPapa » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:45 am

It's the HDD because I changed the motherboard and I'm still getting it, and my backup rig which no longer has the same HDDs and used to have the problem is now running perfectly.

Completely different chipsets BTW, one was Via, the new one is AMD. New mobo, new RAM, new GPU --- so it's something else, and I KNOW that one of the three hard drives has issues ;)

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Regarding Intel, I refuse to support them for non-technical reasons, but their multi-core model and strategy is clearly superior to AMD's :yesnod:
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Re:

Postby JabbaPapa » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:31 pm

Bumping an old thread, but due to personal issues leading to financial difficulties, I had to put this upgrade on hold.

But it's alive again !! :)

JabbaPapa wrote:Well, I'm going to build my Phenom rig next week --- except without the Phenom :lol: :

My desktop is getting flakier and flakier with Vista (whilst it runs XP x64 perfectly, I cannot continue to ignore these warnings...)


This turned out to be a PSU problem, with the Bluestorm PSU mentioned below :x

JabbaPapa wrote:So I'm upgrading !

Already have :

Case Still have, and happy with
Excellent Bluestorm PSU Broke down :-x Replaced with basic PSU that will just explode after breaking down instead of pretending to still work :P
DVD and DVD Burner Burner broke down and replaced, sigh, I'm really unlucky with burners
Floppy Still have, and happy with
GeForce 8500 (NEW!) Still have, and happy with
1 GB Buffalo DDR2 (NEW!) 800 Mhz Was a good temporary solution, replaced with 2x 2GB PC8500 Corsair Dominator ^*^
Silicon Image IDE controller card Still have, and happy with
Various hard drives, including the two 160GB SATA drives (to be upgraded later) Still have, and happy with
Multiple copies of Windows Still have, and happy with - Currently Triple Booting XP x64, Vista x64, W7 x64


The bare bones of my system have remained intact, and overall I am happy with the choices I made at the time to wait for FutureWare --- with one exception :(

JabbaPapa wrote:Have ordered :

Asus M3A motherboard (mid-range AM2+ mobo)


^^ THIS turned out to be a very unlucky buy, because Asus decided that this was one of the motherboards that they would not support for the transition from Phenom I to Phenom II by AMD. They HAVE released a BIOS that lets me run my current Phenom II, but it's a Beta BIOS and it appears to be unstable (...)

JabbaPapa wrote:1 GB Kingston DDR2 800 Mhz (not ideal, but they don't sell Buffalo RAM modules here, the Buffalo was a freebie, but imperfect dual-channel will be better than the wastage of a perfectly good RAM module or no dual-channel at all) (possibly to be upgraded to 1000Mhz DDR2 later :question )


At the risk of repeating myself, Was a good temporary solution, replaced with 2x 2GB PC8500 Corsair Dominator ^*^

JabbaPapa wrote:And, while waiting for non-buggy Phenom CPUs :

Sempron 3600+ (probably faster than my current socket 939 Athlon64 single core -- and dirt cheap --- and the rest of the rig will be faster, so I'll already see some performance gain :cool: )


I was actually quite happy with this Sempron, and I got over a year's worth of use out of it, and it was only when I started to get more involved in gaming over the last months that it started to show its limitations, and started hovering almost permanently at the 80-99% CPU usage zone...

It has been replaced with a Phenom II Triple Core X3 710 which just blows me away with its performance :) I've used a couple of dual-core rigs in the past year, and my experience with those and with this AMD X3 has basically confirmed my old opinions about multicore CPUs : 2 cores aren't quite enough ; 4 cores or more are a luxury :)

I consider the AMD X3 line to be the _minimum_ acceptable multicore CPU for a modern rig.

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Overall -- well, I'm generally happy with the upgrade path that I chose, as I was unable to just build an entirely new system from scratch for financial reasons -- but buying the main upgrades piecemeal I have been able to get better components than I would otherwise have been able to afford, and maintain the basic idiosyncrasies of my system, especially my battered old second-hand case that I love for silly sentimental reasons :)

The M3A motherboard is a disappointment, but I was also a bit unlucky as I missed the chance at a Phenom I X3 CPU by about 48 hours because the shop didn't send the order immediately -- or I wouldn't have the BIOS instability issues alluded to previously ; so this is where my piecemeal upgrading did NOT work so well :(

Still, if BIOS continues to play up and/or Asus don't release an updated one, a new AM2+ motherboard will not be hard to find.

Windows 7 Rating :

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It's not the best hardware in the world, but I'm mostly satisfied with it, and performance is quite good enough for me :)
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Re: AM2+ quad core now?

Postby JabbaPapa » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:36 am

Oh good news -- it seems my BIOS instabilities were caused by a beta ethernet driver in W7.

A new driver came down the pipe last week, and it seems that all of my low-level instability woes have vanished ^*^ :yahoo: :witch:
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Re: AM2+ quad core now?

Postby augie » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:33 pm

Quite an odyssey there Julian! :shocked: Glad you finally got it all sorted. :yesnod: Looking at your WEI score, it's a good budget system on steroids compared to my more expensive quad. ^*^ Jeez man, a 4.5 for my OC'd video cards? Bah!!

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