OC up to 2.90 Ghz

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About the game, it sucks in DX9, but it's much better in DX10 -- the tactical aspect really starts to shine ; and also it gets a LOT better and less repetitive once you get past the first 15-20 levels or so

Basic overclock stabilises at 2.88 Ghz, or +30% or thereabouts

I'm no OC specialist, if I were I could get it much higher ; I'm just using the basic manual OC settings in BIOS.

Still, pretty good for an entry-level single-core CPU ...

The recent revelations in the "Vista-capable" class action lawsuit, that Intel pushed for and obtained (by whatever means) a lowering of the bar of the minimum specs for a "Vista-capable" system, leave a bad taste in the mouth. AMD has been pushing and working for years to raise the standards, and Intel's successful lobbying has been a severe blow against the Windows PC market.



What you get with an AM2+ motherboard is the capability to build a truly "Premium-capable" system for Vista

What's "Premium-capable" ? Oh, it's an old set of minimum specs that Intel seems to have succeeded in trashing at the same time that they messed up the "Vista-capable" ones for everyone

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I cannot understate my anger at Intel, and against the suits at MS who let this happen --- even though personally, I feel vindicated by my decision to stick with AMD. In the long run, AMD simply make much more reliable hardware, and without any of this awful skullduggery and customer-shafting.

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Here's my take on how people should REALLY interpret the existing minimum specs for Vista :

Vista-capable = XP-era hardware that can run Vista Basic Edition

current "Vista-sticker" rigs = rigs guaranteed to successfully run Vista Business/Enterprise --- unfortunately, this category includes many, many, MANY computers that have either been sold by OEMs with inappropriate Home Premium software (because Intel's successful push to lower the standard makes it artificially appear that these rigs are premium-capable), as well as many computers that have been built or upgraded by individual enthusiasts based on the MISLEADING minimum specs (SOME of these rigs will be happy with Premium/Ultimate, but most probably will not , particularly given the explosion of the laptop market share) -- not to mention that many computers sold with these stickers are not even fully Vista x64 capable, because of drivers unavailabilty and inappropriate hardware included

"Premium-capable" = rigs that Windows enthusiasts/gamers/geeks/multimedia enthusiasts would want --- and it is a crying shame, but this set of minimum specs was never officially released, even as a set of recommendations. IIRC it included a minimum 2GB DDR2 RAM requirement, DX10 capability was obligatory, and especially there were some VERY tight standards for motherboards and chipsets, to ensure a smooth experience with either Vista Premium or Ultimate ... I guess Intel didn't like those tight standards

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The AM2+ motherboards have as far as I can tell been specced according to the standards of motherboards belonging to this third category of computers for Windows. They can be used with anything from the single-core Semprons, via the Athlons, up to the quad core Phenoms. And Vista just works like a DREAM

The Phenoms are actually AM3 CPUs, as previously mentioned in this thread, so that a future upgrade to a future DDR3-compatible AM3 motherboard will be smooth and simple

Now, it's STILL too early to get a Phenom, the ones currently on the market still have the infamous bug --- the bug-free ones won't be out for another month or so.

BUT :

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If you are fed up with the performance/mis-performance of Vista on your supposedly Vista-friendly Intel system, you should in my opinion DEFINITELY consider switching/switching back to AMD when the 9500, 9650, and other forthcoming bug-free Phenoms finally become available

If you already mistrust Intel, and have been holding the fort with an older AMD system, AM2+ w/ Phenom is the upgrade you've been waiting for

And if you're worried about the supposed benchmarking advantage of the Intel CPUs over the Phenoms, as far as I can tell the benchmarks systematically fail to factor for the AM2+ platform's AMAZING overclocking capabilities ; more Vista-specifically, the chipsets on the AM2+ have been specifically designed for Vista, and AMD has IMO proven now that no : it's NOT just all about clock speeds and benchmarks

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I am really, really looking forward to mid-2008 and later, when fully Vista-friendly computers with the Vista Premium SP1 pre-installed will be out there, so that we can start crawling back from this HUGE damage that Intel has inflicted on Vista and on its image among the public, including the enthusiast public.

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edit : hey 14k posts

DRAT !!! The hardware bug in my config still seems to be there --- rig's started crashing again.

It just has to be a damaged HDD

its not a damaged hd, its the chipset and hardware your useing. i ran amd for a few years, and it was great when they worked. except for overclocking. the motherboards, specifically the nf4 sli platform was unreliable. ive had several "highend" amd boards, and they all have failed. sure they are great for a couple of months.. just like if you keep pushing yours, it will fail too. since i have moved to intel, bluescreens are a thing of the past. nice smooth stable overclocking now, and power? its impressive. with amd, they give you what, maybe 3-500mhz, if your lucky, you might not have to work too hard for it. you might have to show it whos boss, its luck of the draw. intel gives you at least a free ghz, after that, you have to deal with the heat, but usually you get about 1400mhz if you put in some work. amd may be the better company morally, but hardware wise, they are for the budget orientated. with the exception of ati.. right now intel has the upper hand performance wise, and you cannot deny it. yes there is is more to life then benchmarks. i do miss the on die memory controller tho. i have to kick up the fsb, or the stix pretty good to get my latencys into amd territory. but thats about it.. besides, how many amds do you know of that can pull off 8mins a frame on a 2653 in smp useing vista64 sp1? i dont mean to sound like a jerk in this post. but what you have said about the recent revelations, arent so recent. amd did that when conroes came out.. fear leaves a bitter taste sometimes. i tried hard to get my amds to keep up, but couldnt.

It's the HDD because I changed the motherboard and I'm still getting it, and my backup rig which no longer has the same HDDs and used to have the problem is now running perfectly.

Completely different chipsets BTW, one was Via, the new one is AMD. New mobo, new RAM, new GPU --- so it's something else, and I KNOW that one of the three hard drives has issues

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Regarding Intel, I refuse to support them for non-technical reasons, but their multi-core model and strategy is clearly superior to AMD's